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The Scientist: NewsBlog:
An epigenetic inheritance
Posted by Tia Ghose [Entry posted at 19th January 2009 03:58 PM GMT]
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Defining epigenes by Jennifer Allsbrook [Comment posted 2009-01-23 21:57:56] The term epigenetic refers to being outside of or in addition to the genome. I do not presume to change anyone's mind regarding this topic but if I can add clarity I will gladly try. When an offspring inherits chromosomes from each parent - these carry genes which are part of the genome. Generally speaking these genes code for the production of specific proteins. If however, a gene is never transcribed and translated it is never expressed. Epigenetic inheritance involves patterns of methylation on the DNA that block this transcription thereby silencing the gene. Some genes are methylated differently in male sex cells than in female sex cells. As a result - an offspring inherits silenced genes. This "epi" inheritance is the focus of the article in question. P.P.S. by Ruth Rosin [Comment posted 2009-01-22 17:08:37] Re identical twins raised together: It is important to stress that, due to the complexity & versatility of human behavior, it is impossible for such twins to do everything together throughout their whole lives, even if they were conjoined ("Siamese") twins.
In an earlier post I imagined a scenario where one twin catches a cold from a person who is standing next to him, but the other twin, who cannot occupy the same space at the same time, does not catch the cold. I was thinking of a situation where the other twin was there. But, he could, of course, have been somewhere else altogether at that time. re "epigenes": I have tried to deal with them. But by now I realise that I do not really know what they are, i.e. I never saw a definition that would enable me to identify anything specific as an "epigene". So what exactly is an "epigene"??? Response to latest from Collins by Ruth Rosin [Comment posted 2009-01-22 15:54:22] I didn't say that genes cannot be separated from their effects. I said that the effects (!) of genes cannot be separated from the effects of the environments in ontogeny.
My exclamation marks are only intended to indicate that I'm sick and tired of having to repeat the same statement over & over again. You want furtehr explanations? Check my comments in the recent discussion on SciAm online re "Evolution of the Mind". Response to Ruth Rosin by John Collins [Comment posted 2009-01-22 08:32:37] Ruth you write: All (!) individual traits of all (!) living organisms, develop ontogenetically, (i.e. in the individual organism), under inseparable (!) effects of both (!) inherited, and environmental factors. And inseparable means inseparable, period!!!
Are those baseball bats or exclamation marks supposed to intimidate the rest of us into believing that there is no way to distinguish environmental response of genes from the genes themselves? If that were true there would be no science of genetics. But there is and it is on solid ground, taking into account exactly how an organism responds to changes in its environment. Sampling issues by HENRY CHANG [Comment posted 2009-01-21 16:08:49] Before one invokes epigenetic changes, one must verify that there are no genetic changes in the tissue of interest. For example, if one monozygotic twin develops schizophrenia, it is not enough to take a blood sample and say because there are no genetic differences, it must be epigenetic. One might have to do post-mortem brain DNA sequencing to confirm mutations did not occur during development. Methylases by Donovan Haines [Comment posted 2009-01-21 08:15:02] Okay, someone explain something to me (a chemist that studies P450s, many of which are polymorphic) that I missed. The methylation patterns being more similar in identical twins doesn't sound surprising, because wouldn't the methylation be catalyzed by DNA methylases, whose genes (and their many subtle properties) would quite clearly be inherited? So the twins should have identical methylases, but non-twins may have differences/polymorphisms? Wouldn't there also be many other genes that modulate the DNA methylases that would be expected to be identical in the idential twins but potentially not in others? P.S. by Ruth Rosin [Comment posted 2009-01-20 13:38:04] Now that I have finally understood what those who speak of "epigenes" mean by "epigenes", I can imagine an almost endless number of scenarios, where traits that develop in a parent (under inseparable effects of both genes & environment), can affect the next generation.
Since, in humans, parents often affect, in many different ways, what happens to their children, this is both true and trivial. Furthermore, the claim that "epigenes" are "inherited" courts trouble when you begin to consider the effects that other relatives, or friends of the family, can have on what happens with the children. Re response to John Collins by Ruth Rosin [Comment posted 2009-01-20 09:39:49] Hold it! I need to think!
I have just realised that you do not question that the effects of inherited factors and the effects of the environment, are inseparable in ontogeny. What you claim is something very different. You claim that some traits that are due to inseparable effects of inherited factors and environmental factors, can have an effect on the next generation. I begin to realise that this is correct, obvious, and also trivial. Suppose a mother grew up under conditions which (inseparably from the effects of her genes), resulted in her developing serious, life-long, health problems. This could easily result in her having difficult pregnancies, with damaging birth-defects in her new-born children. So what's special, or interesting about it? Response to John Collins by Ruth Rosin [Comment posted 2009-01-20 08:48:01] You simply refuse to understand that inseparable means inseparable; no matter what you study, and what you compare.
If you study a specific individual that was raised under a specific set of environmental conditions, (irrespective of whether he is one of a set of identical twins, or fraternal twins, raised together, or apart, or whether you compare him to his parents, or not), all you can get are the effects that his specific (!) inherited factors played in his ontogeny, inseparably (!!!) from the effects of the specific (!) set of environmental conditions under which he was raised. You get nothing more than that! Do not make the mistake of assuming that a trait that develops earlier is due more to inherited factors than to the environment. Response to Jenifer by Ruth Rosin [Comment posted 2009-01-20 08:17:53] I never said, or even remotely suggested, that the environment is more important.
What I stated very clearly is that it is impossible to separate the effects of inherited factors from the effects of the environment in ontogeny. Without a separation, the possibility that one would be more important, or less important than the other, does not exist. Yes really by John Collins [Comment posted 2009-01-20 04:12:10] In twin studies the minimum environmental effect is estimated by comparing identical twins who grew up together with identical twins who were separated early. That the methylation patterns change during life and differ more in those that were separated has long been clearly established (see for example: Vaag, Z etal (2005) Proc.Natl.Acad.Sci.USA, 102, 10604. Others show smoking leads to methylation, and thereby blockage, of genes that block cancer, apparently the opposite with green tea drinkers. This hasn't anything to do with the question addressed.
In inherited epigenetics the question is: What came through from the parents? One needs to compare children at birth with their parents. Twins might be interesting in this context but not absolutely necessary. There have already been examples in humans which show that such an effect is more than likely, such as the small size of babies born to well-nourished individuals, who themselves were born small as a result of the war-time famine in the Netherlands. This type of adaptive plasticity would have selective advantage in evolution where the environment goes through cyclic changes (drought, cold etc.) for periods considerably shorter than a generation time of the organism. Permanent genetic changes in the genes might lead to loss of this flexibility. Really - Really! by Jennifer Allsbrook [Comment posted 2009-01-19 19:58:14] The process of genomic imprinting or pattern of DNA methylation occurs in the gametes - the sperm and the egg. The environment of the egg does contain cytoplasmic determinants, molecules that can affect which genes turn on and in which sequence. However, genes that are heavily methylated as in the case of the epigenome, are blocked from being transcribed. To say the environment is more influencial ignores all the experimental evidence to the contrary. Really? by Ruth Rosin [Comment posted 2009-01-19 18:47:35] The study is based on the premise that by comparing identical & fraternal twins, it is possible to separately determine which of their traits are due to inherited factors, and which, to the environment; or else, separately determine the percentage of the contributions of inherited factors, and of the environment, to the presence of each specific trait.
The premise is a fallacy, and, therefore, so, inevitably, are all conclusions based on it. All (!) individual traits of all (!) living organisms, develop ontogenetically, (i.e. in the individual organism), under inseparable (!) effects of both (!) inherited, and environmental factors. And inseparable means inseparable, period!!! The study is also based on the assumption that identical twins raised in the same family, can be considered as having been raised in an identical environment, or very close to it. This assumption is also a fallacy. Although identical twins raised in the same family are often raised in similar environments, it is, in principle, impossible for them to share an identical environment, just as it is impossible for them to share the same space at the same time. (As a trivial example, just consider the theoretical possibility that one twin happens to catch a cold from someone who has a cold and is standing next to him, whereas the other twin, unable to occupy the same space at the same time, does not catch the cold.) Comment on this blog |